Comments on: Niko, Cry Me a River http://www.game-ism.com/2008/05/22/niko-cry-me-a-river/ game critique. game design. game development. game culture. Tue, 03 Jan 2012 00:51:22 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.4 By: Andrew http://www.game-ism.com/2008/05/22/niko-cry-me-a-river/comment-page-1/#comment-7694 Andrew Mon, 09 Jun 2008 03:48:46 +0000 http://www.game-ism.com/?p=119#comment-7694 This is the wrong issue. So what if Hollick made $100K over 15 months? Shouldn't DEVELOPERS as well as actors get a cut of the back-end if a game is wildly successful? I think developers should unionize, but that's just my opinion. Who's making the money? The producers. Who's getting screwed? The people who made the game what it is. Think about it. This is the wrong issue. So what if Hollick made $100K over 15 months? Shouldn’t DEVELOPERS as well as actors get a cut of the back-end if a game is wildly successful? I think developers should unionize, but that’s just my opinion. Who’s making the money? The producers. Who’s getting screwed? The people who made the game what it is. Think about it.

]]> By: Dastardly Josh http://www.game-ism.com/2008/05/22/niko-cry-me-a-river/comment-page-1/#comment-7563 Dastardly Josh Fri, 23 May 2008 23:52:04 +0000 http://www.game-ism.com/?p=119#comment-7563 He decided to work in a different industry. Games doesn't work like the rest of the entertainment industry (though games could learn a few things as far as production goes, but that's an altogether different issue). It's like if a Chef who wasn't working in a major restaurant decided to move into fast food and complained that his pay was "less than stellar." It's a bad comparison but I think you see the point. Just because you choose to do a "lesser" job doesn't mean you should get the royal treatment. It's not like he's a top shelf actor either. He's had a couple episode in Law and Order. That's all. Honestly, he made a killing in the game industry. He should be happy he wasn't paid at the entry level, which is where he is. He decided to work in a different industry. Games doesn’t work like the rest of the entertainment industry (though games could learn a few things as far as production goes, but that’s an altogether different issue).
It’s like if a Chef who wasn’t working in a major restaurant decided to move into fast food and complained that his pay was “less than stellar.” It’s a bad comparison but I think you see the point. Just because you choose to do a “lesser” job doesn’t mean you should get the royal treatment. It’s not like he’s a top shelf actor either. He’s had a couple episode in Law and Order. That’s all.
Honestly, he made a killing in the game industry. He should be happy he wasn’t paid at the entry level, which is where he is.

]]> By: Fun Link Friday » Games News and Reviews » Binary Joy http://www.game-ism.com/2008/05/22/niko-cry-me-a-river/comment-page-1/#comment-7561 Fun Link Friday » Games News and Reviews » Binary Joy Fri, 23 May 2008 16:20:52 +0000 http://www.game-ism.com/?p=119#comment-7561 [...] they should be paid scaling amounts based upon how well the game does. Personally I disagree, and this post on Game-ism explains my feelings better than I [...] [...] they should be paid scaling amounts based upon how well the game does. Personally I disagree, and this post on Game-ism explains my feelings better than I [...]

]]> By: Roc http://www.game-ism.com/2008/05/22/niko-cry-me-a-river/comment-page-1/#comment-7560 Roc Fri, 23 May 2008 15:20:33 +0000 http://www.game-ism.com/?p=119#comment-7560 Sure, Michael Hollick got paid more than most people who worked on GTA IV and is probably one of the last who deserve royalties/residuals based on who the suits are really putting the screws to. However -- that shouldn't be the primary discussion point. That's what the publishers would like you to focus on - so that you inadvertently line up on their side of the 'Royalties are not an option' argument. It's poisonous for the game industry. SAG/AFTRA/WGA/etc have been a net positive to the entire film industry, due in no small part to their ending the studio system and securing residuals/royalties for creatives so that they can actually make a sane career out of the business with some semblance of quality-of-life. What game developers need to start thinking about - is how you guys can start the ball rolling in the same direction. Maybe it helps to let SAG/AFTRA/WGA/et al do the heavy lifting with their expensive lawyers and experienced negotiators, to get -real- royalties onto the table and open things up for pattern bargaining. Do they -deserve- to be first or get more? No. I don't think they are any more important. However, I also don't think that negates the fact that you -all- deserve royalties/residuals nor the good that they can do in getting the ball rolling. Sure, Michael Hollick got paid more than most people who worked on GTA IV and is probably one of the last who deserve royalties/residuals based on who the suits are really putting the screws to.

However — that shouldn’t be the primary discussion point. That’s what the publishers would like you to focus on – so that you inadvertently line up on their side of the ‘Royalties are not an option’ argument.

It’s poisonous for the game industry.

SAG/AFTRA/WGA/etc have been a net positive to the entire film industry, due in no small part to their ending the studio system and securing residuals/royalties for creatives so that they can actually make a sane career out of the business with some semblance of quality-of-life.

What game developers need to start thinking about – is how you guys can start the ball rolling in the same direction. Maybe it helps to let SAG/AFTRA/WGA/et al do the heavy lifting with their expensive lawyers and experienced negotiators, to get -real- royalties onto the table and open things up for pattern bargaining.

Do they -deserve- to be first or get more? No. I don’t think they are any more important. However, I also don’t think that negates the fact that you -all- deserve royalties/residuals nor the good that they can do in getting the ball rolling.

]]> By: Ben http://www.game-ism.com/2008/05/22/niko-cry-me-a-river/comment-page-1/#comment-7559 Ben Fri, 23 May 2008 14:07:44 +0000 http://www.game-ism.com/?p=119#comment-7559 @Jamo You can believe that all you want, but you can't run a capitalist economy that way. Apart from anything else, it's more unfair. @Jamo

You can believe that all you want, but you can’t run a capitalist economy that way. Apart from anything else, it’s more unfair.

]]> By: Tenyu http://www.game-ism.com/2008/05/22/niko-cry-me-a-river/comment-page-1/#comment-7558 Tenyu Fri, 23 May 2008 13:39:40 +0000 http://www.game-ism.com/?p=119#comment-7558 A great post indeed, however I cannot agree all your opinions. It seems that you're seeing this issue from a game producer's aspect, not from a voice actor's. If an animation movie meets an unexpected success, it's not a nonsense request for a voice actor to ask for more pay. As for a game's voice actor it is still the case. However when the two sides make contract, th.e problem of standards difference poped up. Then comes the conflict. A great post indeed, however I cannot agree all your opinions. It seems that you’re seeing this issue from a game producer’s aspect, not from a voice actor’s. If an animation movie meets an unexpected success, it’s not a nonsense request for a voice actor to ask for more pay. As for a game’s voice actor it is still the case. However when the two sides make contract, th.e problem of standards difference poped up. Then comes the conflict.

]]> By: Jamo http://www.game-ism.com/2008/05/22/niko-cry-me-a-river/comment-page-1/#comment-7557 Jamo Fri, 23 May 2008 13:14:30 +0000 http://www.game-ism.com/?p=119#comment-7557 [rant] true enough but, i believe that you should be payed by how hard you work, so movie stars and people who hardly do any real work should get payed squat shit but people like construction workers should get payed shit tons. He got payed to talk, payed more that the coders who actually have to know shit to so there job. [/rant] [rant]
true enough but, i believe that you should be payed by how hard you work, so movie stars and people who hardly do any real work should get payed squat shit but people like construction workers should get payed shit tons.

He got payed to talk, payed more that the coders who actually have to know shit to so there job.
[/rant]

]]> By: Ben http://www.game-ism.com/2008/05/22/niko-cry-me-a-river/comment-page-1/#comment-7551 Ben Fri, 23 May 2008 08:04:23 +0000 http://www.game-ism.com/?p=119#comment-7551 Pay isn't decided by how hard you work, it's decided by the amount of value you add for your employer. I haven't played GTA4, but I suspect that if the main character's voice artist was terrible it would be much more noticeable than (for example) a few poorly-optimised shaders. Pay isn’t decided by how hard you work, it’s decided by the amount of value you add for your employer.

I haven’t played GTA4, but I suspect that if the main character’s voice artist was terrible it would be much more noticeable than (for example) a few poorly-optimised shaders.

]]> By: Tim http://www.game-ism.com/2008/05/22/niko-cry-me-a-river/comment-page-1/#comment-7549 Tim Fri, 23 May 2008 04:49:10 +0000 http://www.game-ism.com/?p=119#comment-7549 Right on! I like that your reaction was to get righteously indignant and then stop to think about it, do the math and then REALLY get righteously indignant. Right on!

I like that your reaction was to get righteously indignant and then stop to think about it, do the math and then REALLY get righteously indignant.

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